What it's going to take to save lives. Where do you fit in?

barbara

Pioneer Founding member
My interview appeared today on About.com and also in Google Alerts for COPD. I am posting the link here. This interview came about after I posted a simple remark on About.com about stem cells. I was then asked to do the interview, but was told that the medical board that oversees the site would probably edit any information I put in about ICMS. I persisted and said that no interview would be complete without it and as you will see, I got my way. This shows what we can do if we apply ourselves and stick to our principles.

Technically, Dr. Centeno says that the FDA cannot prevent doctors from treating patients with their own stem cells, even those that have been manipulated, here in the U.S., but most doctors do not understand this. He also says that they are intimidated by the FDA and don't realize that the FDA does not have authority, never has and hopefully never will to interfere in the practice of medicine. It does get sticky, however, if there is any kind of interstate transfer of blood, stem cells, etc. This is regulated by the FCC and is not permissible. Most doctors need to be educated along these lines and that is what ICMS is doing. Dr. Centeno and others give lectures and attend conferences all on their own time and at their own expense. Hooray to these wonderful pioneers.

http://copd.about.com/od/copdtreatment/a/stemcellinterview.htm?r=94
 
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Jane

New member
Dr. Mehmet Oz

I wrote on Dr. Oz's new FaceBook to explore ICMC and to do a program on Stem Cells.

I just checked another of his sites on FB and it said "Dr. Mehmet Oz: Could the fat sucked out during liposuction be converted to stem cells? New research says yes, calling it "liquid gold." Next time you're insecure about some extra fat, just think... you're storing up to save someone's life one day."

This doctor that is most beloved by so many through Oprah may be our greatest hope for bringing Stem Cells to the forefront.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/09/08/liposuction-leftovers-are-a-stem-cell-bonanza/
 
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barbara

Pioneer Founding member
Liquid Gold used to be a furniture polish

Fat promises to be one of the best sources for stem cells. Several people, including me, on this forum have had treatment with adipose stem cells. Unfortunately, they don't take enough fat out. I still have plenty to go around!


To anyone reading this post:
If you want to invite your doctor or any other doctor to join ICMS, please give them this link:
www.stemcelldocs.org


Here's another article on the liquid gold Jane referred to:


Article Date: 08 Sep 2009 - 2:00 PDT

Globs of human fat removed during liposuction conceal versatile cells that are more quickly and easily coaxed to become induced pluripotent stem cells, or iPS cells, than are the skin cells most often used by researchers, according to a new study from Stanford's School of Medicine.

"We've identified a great natural resource," said Stanford surgery professor and co-author of the research, Michael Longaker, MD, who has called the readily available liposuction leftovers "liquid gold." Reprogramming adult cells to function like embryonic stem cells is one way researchers hope to create patient-specific cell lines to regenerate tissue or to study specific diseases in the laboratory.

"Thirty to 40 percent of adults in this country are obese," agreed cardiologist Joseph Wu, MD, PhD, the paper's senior author. "Not only can we start with a lot of cells, we can reprogram them much more efficiently. Fibroblasts, or skin cells, must be grown in the lab for three weeks or more before they can be reprogrammed. But these stem cells from fat are ready to go right away."

The fact that the cells can also be converted without the need for mouse-derived "feeder cells" may make them an ideal starting material for human therapies. Feeder cells are often used when growing human skin cells outside the body, but physicians worry that cross-species contamination could make them unsuitable for human use.

The findings were published online Sept. 7 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Longaker is the deputy director of Stanford's Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine Institute and director of children's surgical research at Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. Wu is an assistant professor of cardiology and radiology, and a member of Stanford's Cardiovascular Institute.

Even those of us who are not obese would probably be happy to part with a couple of pounds (or more) of flab. Nestled within this unwanted latticework of fat cells and collagen are multipotent cells called adipose, or fat, stem cells. Unlike highly specialized skin-cell fibroblasts, these cells in the fat have a relatively wide portfolio of differentiation options - becoming fat, bone or muscle as needed. It's this pre-existing flexibility, the researchers believe, that gives these cell an edge over the skin cells.

"These cells are not as far along on the differentiation pathway, so they're easier to back up to an earlier state," said first author and postdoctoral scholar Ning Sun, PhD, who conducted the research in both Longaker's and Wu's laboratories. "They are more embryonic-like than fibroblasts, which take more effort to reprogram."

These reprogrammed iPS cells are usually created by expressing four genes, called Yamanaka factors, normally unexpressed (or expressed at very low levels) in adult cells.

Sun found that the fat stem cells actually express higher starting levels of two of the four reprogramming genes than do adult skin cells - suggesting that these cells are already primed for change. When he added all four genes, about 0.01 percent of the skin-cell fibroblasts eventually became iPS cells but about 0.2 percent of the fat stem cells did so - a 20-fold improvement in efficiency.

The new iPS cells passed the standard tests for pluripotency: They formed tumors called teratomas when injected into immunocompromised mice, and they could differentiate into cells from the three main tissue types in the body, including neurons, muscle and gut epithelium. The researchers are now investigating whether the gene expression profiles of the fat stem cells could be used to identify a subpopulation that could be reprogrammed even more efficiently.

"The idea of reprogramming a cell from your body to become anything your body needs is very exciting," said Longaker, who emphasized that the work involved not just a collaboration between his lab and Wu's, but also between the two Stanford institutes. "The field now needs to move forward in ways that the Food and Drug Administration would approve - with cells that can be efficiently reprogrammed without the risk of cross-species contamination - and Stanford is an ideal place for that to happen."

"Imagine if we could isolate fat cells from a patient with some type of congenital cardiac disease," said Wu. "We could then differentiate them into cardiac cells, study how they respond to different drugs or stimuli and see how they compare to normal cells. This would be a great advance."

In addition to Sun, Wu and Longaker, other Stanford collaborators on the research include postdoctoral scholars Nicholas Panetta, MD, Deepak Gupta, MD, and Shijun Hu, PhD; graduate student Kitchener Wilson; medical student Andrew Lee; research assistant Fangjun Jia, PhD; associate professor of pathology and of pediatrics Athena Cherry, PhD; and professor of cardiothoracic surgery Robert Robbins, MD.

The research was supported by the Mallinckrodt Foundation, the American Heart Association, the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, the National Institutes of Health, the Stanford Cardiovascular Institute, the Oak Foundation and the Hagey Laboratory for Pediatric Regenerative Medicine.

Source:
Krista Conger
Stanford University Medical Center
 
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hlichten

Super Moderator
Fat promises to be one of the best sources for stem cells. Several people, including me, on this forum have had treatment with adipose stem cells. Unfortunately, they don't take enough fat out. I still have plenty to go around!...
Then I have enough for the entire forum!! :)

So adipose cells seem to be superior to skin cells.
And, Technocracy posted that adipose and freckles are superior to skin cells.

Any current proof that adipose cells are more viable than marrow?
 

gator871

New member
stem cells from fat vs marrow

Like most, I have done quite a bit of research into this and I am far from an expert. What I have learned is that the stem cells from fat are very good and so are the stem cells from marrow. The difference I have seen is that the sheer number of stem cells from marrow is greater, especially if your white blood cell count is raised before drawing the cells out of the marrow. This is a key reason why I chose a clinic in Mexico, just 2 miles over the border from San Diego. I will get between 300-500 million stem cells. From what I heard most centers that use fat stem cells only achieve 70 million or so. I want as much a chance of this procedure helping me and the more stem cells you get, the better the chances are, especially with a capable doctor. Again, I am no expert, but that is what I have learned. I also want to add this from a clinical article I have read:
?Whether the transplanted stem cells are responsible for the functional improvement seen in some MS patients who undergo HSCT, or whether stopping inflammation may allow the brain to repair itself is unclear, but understanding these mechanisms might lead to treatments to enhance and encourage remyelination. This is the focus of research on mesenchymal stem cells. These are stem cells derived from the bone marrow that have immune-suppressing and regenerative properties and in theory may be capable of repairing the brain damaged by MS.
Scientists working on this aspect of MS say that "regenerating lost brain tissue is the next frontier in MS - to add repair to what we can already do to fight inflammation?

I hope this is helpful.
Rich
 

Everett

New member
Building adipose tissue

One of the good side effects of my research on sneeze prevention is it may help me gain some fat of which I am challenged. I probably will hear boos from some but at near 6' and 140# I need all the help I can get. Now my Linda is not so challenged but thank God she doesn't have emphesema. Barb said I shouldn't be so hard on myself for the years of smoking and Linda used to smoke 4 packs a day of Salem menthol kings. Go figure
That reminds me, I only have two half gallons of ice cream in the freezer. I need to go to the store.
Welcome Cynthia
 
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Animalca

New member
Surprised about Stanford

How surprising to hear about Stanford and their "open" approach to stem cells! Did not realize that Sanjay Gupta was part of their lot, so that was surprising as well.

After our autologous treatment in the DR last July...where, incidentally, my daughter nearly died during the procedure as for some reason, Dr Grekos' team did not realize that her pulmonary pressures were quite so high as they were, but, thank G-d, they pulled her through with no ill effect...Stanford went absolutely ballistic when we told them that we had had a procedure with Dr Grekos' group.

All was fine until we mentioned his name, and then boy, the things that our Stanford doctor said about Dr Grekos...most vitriolic indeed.

The Stanford doctor then pulled out all the plugs (threw my daughter into the hospital for three days) more, it seemed to us, in an effort to discover something that could have been caused by the procedure than in an effort to make sure my daughter was fine (which, thank G-d, she was). Although I know that Stanford was seriously concerned about her well-being and that this indeed motivated the hospitalization, the doctor had at that point already dismissed us with a "see you in three months" before I told him about the procedure.

During the whirlwind that immediately followed my telling him of the stem cell procedure in the DR, what stood out most in my mind (and there was a lot of what he said that stood out) was when this doctor said to me, and I quote, "We do not want Dr Grekos to claim one of our patients as his victory." It was very comforting.

What followed was an unending harangue, of myself and my daughter, on the apparently sheer stupidity of trying something to help her get better. "Experimental" was tossed around a lot. When we had earlier asked Stanford (same institution, different doctor) about stem cells, we were essentially dismissed, and now when we had tried to help my daughter's condition (still DO NOT know definitively that the stem cells helped, but she IS looking and feeling a lot better....even before Stanford upped her meds) Stanford's reaction was to verbally, and I'm sure, to their mind, gently, castigate us...especially her... for the effort. The "gentle" harangue did not let up even at her subsequent appointment. Bad enough that she is sick, but in addition, for her to be punished for the effort of trying to get better seemed, in a word, unfair.

To add to this whole little episode, when I requested, as I always do, full copies and films of the procedures Stanford did as their "follow up" to the stem cell procedure (over 100 pages), they at first only sent partial reports, then secondly, sent the same partial reports with the comment that they did not know if the reports were complete or not, and just for fun, they included in the sheaf of our reports the partial reports of a middle-aged man. Finally, on the third attempt, we got what seem to be our full and complete reports, together with a letter of apology for the mishap.

I am fully aware that I have established for myself the reputation of the pain in the a-- over-protective crazy mother, and it's entirely true. I AM over-protective of my extremely sick child, and I AM crazy with desperation for something that will, please G-d, make her, if not well, then significantly better.

At the end of the day, admittedly Stanford has taken EXCELLENT care of my daughter. She has been extremely well managed by them physically. HOWEVER, as fine physicians as they are, and they are indeed very good at what they do, our recent experience, and our experience with them when trying to "think outside the box" has been that they are more concerned for the reputation of the institution than they are for the emotional well-being of their patient.

Needless to say, we are no longer at Stanford.






Fat promises to be one of the best sources for stem cells. Several people, including me, on this forum have had treatment with adipose stem cells. Unfortunately, they don't take enough fat out. I still have plenty to go around!


To anyone reading this post:
If you want to invite your doctor or any other doctor to join ICMS, please give them this link:
www.stemcelldocs.org


Here's another article on the liquid gold Jane referred to:


Article Date: 08 Sep 2009 - 2:00 PDT

Globs of human fat removed during liposuction conceal versatile cells that are more quickly and easily coaxed to become induced pluripotent stem cells, or iPS cells, than are the skin cells most often used by researchers, according to a new study from Stanford's School of Medicine.

"We've identified a great natural resource," said Stanford surgery professor and co-author of the research, Michael Longaker, MD, who has called the readily available liposuction leftovers "liquid gold." Reprogramming adult cells to function like embryonic stem cells is one way researchers hope to create patient-specific cell lines to regenerate tissue or to study specific diseases in the laboratory.

"Thirty to 40 percent of adults in this country are obese," agreed cardiologist Joseph Wu, MD, PhD, the paper's senior author. "Not only can we start with a lot of cells, we can reprogram them much more efficiently. Fibroblasts, or skin cells, must be grown in the lab for three weeks or more before they can be reprogrammed. But these stem cells from fat are ready to go right away."

The fact that the cells can also be converted without the need for mouse-derived "feeder cells" may make them an ideal starting material for human therapies. Feeder cells are often used when growing human skin cells outside the body, but physicians worry that cross-species contamination could make them unsuitable for human use.

The findings were published online Sept. 7 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Longaker is the deputy director of Stanford's Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine Institute and director of children's surgical research at Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. Wu is an assistant professor of cardiology and radiology, and a member of Stanford's Cardiovascular Institute.

Even those of us who are not obese would probably be happy to part with a couple of pounds (or more) of flab. Nestled within this unwanted latticework of fat cells and collagen are multipotent cells called adipose, or fat, stem cells. Unlike highly specialized skin-cell fibroblasts, these cells in the fat have a relatively wide portfolio of differentiation options - becoming fat, bone or muscle as needed. It's this pre-existing flexibility, the researchers believe, that gives these cell an edge over the skin cells.

"These cells are not as far along on the differentiation pathway, so they're easier to back up to an earlier state," said first author and postdoctoral scholar Ning Sun, PhD, who conducted the research in both Longaker's and Wu's laboratories. "They are more embryonic-like than fibroblasts, which take more effort to reprogram."

These reprogrammed iPS cells are usually created by expressing four genes, called Yamanaka factors, normally unexpressed (or expressed at very low levels) in adult cells.

Sun found that the fat stem cells actually express higher starting levels of two of the four reprogramming genes than do adult skin cells - suggesting that these cells are already primed for change. When he added all four genes, about 0.01 percent of the skin-cell fibroblasts eventually became iPS cells but about 0.2 percent of the fat stem cells did so - a 20-fold improvement in efficiency.

The new iPS cells passed the standard tests for pluripotency: They formed tumors called teratomas when injected into immunocompromised mice, and they could differentiate into cells from the three main tissue types in the body, including neurons, muscle and gut epithelium. The researchers are now investigating whether the gene expression profiles of the fat stem cells could be used to identify a subpopulation that could be reprogrammed even more efficiently.

"The idea of reprogramming a cell from your body to become anything your body needs is very exciting," said Longaker, who emphasized that the work involved not just a collaboration between his lab and Wu's, but also between the two Stanford institutes. "The field now needs to move forward in ways that the Food and Drug Administration would approve - with cells that can be efficiently reprogrammed without the risk of cross-species contamination - and Stanford is an ideal place for that to happen."

"Imagine if we could isolate fat cells from a patient with some type of congenital cardiac disease," said Wu. "We could then differentiate them into cardiac cells, study how they respond to different drugs or stimuli and see how they compare to normal cells. This would be a great advance."

In addition to Sun, Wu and Longaker, other Stanford collaborators on the research include postdoctoral scholars Nicholas Panetta, MD, Deepak Gupta, MD, and Shijun Hu, PhD; graduate student Kitchener Wilson; medical student Andrew Lee; research assistant Fangjun Jia, PhD; associate professor of pathology and of pediatrics Athena Cherry, PhD; and professor of cardiothoracic surgery Robert Robbins, MD.

The research was supported by the Mallinckrodt Foundation, the American Heart Association, the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine, the National Institutes of Health, the Stanford Cardiovascular Institute, the Oak Foundation and the Hagey Laboratory for Pediatric Regenerative Medicine.

Source:
Krista Conger
Stanford University Medical Center
 

barbara

Pioneer Founding member
Animalca - What an informative post you have made. First of all, I hope that your daughter is continuing to improve. Those that do not walk in our shoes will never understand why we are going "outside the box" rather than wait for mighty institutions, universities and the FDA to finally come to our aide. Unless they themselves or a loved one is involved, the reality is that we are not any part of an emotional process with any of them.

I became disappointed in Dr. Sanjay Gupta when a stem cell doctor told me that he had offered to treat the poor children in Peru who Dr. Gupta has spoken about on television at no cost. Dr. Gupta did not even reply. These children most likely would have benefited greatly from the therapy.

This is the sad reality of what is going on in this country. We are not only fighting the FDA and politicians, we are fighting many universities and scientists who see research funding as a jobs program. Throw Big Pharma into the mix and what we have is a country controlled by special interests where sick people are paying the ultimate price with their lives. As you point out, what went on with you seems to be a matter of prestige or reputation. How very sad.

Again, thank you for speaking up. If more people exposed what is going on then maybe changes could be made. As it is, we will continue to lose the battle in the U.S. to these special interest groups (and that's really what they are). What they can't control is the fact that there are offshore clinics and some will take advantage of those. If they find out, patients will be harassed like you and your daughter have been. The ISSCR would even like control of offshore clinics, but that's not likely to happen in my opinion.

I just am very glad to know that your daughter is okay after her harrowing experience with Dr. Grekos' team. Unfortunately, this type of thing can happen anywhere. Please keep us updated on your daughter.
 

Animalca

New member
We must Find a LEADER, then Focus, Plan, and Direct our Efforts to Pass Legislation

I recently commented privately to Barb, and she has asked me to post my comments on the open forum:

Hi Barbara,

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate it, and you are correct...the state of medicine in this country is in the hands of people who aren't sick, and whose main concern is for their pocketbook, not the return to health of patients.

Some cases really are quite curious. For example, Genesis Rothblatt, the daughter of Martine (formerly Martin) Rothblatt, the founder of United Therapeutics, the manufacturer of Remodulin, was diagnosed with PH over ten years ago. Genesis' mother/father (I'm sorry, I don't know what is politically correct in the transgender world and do not mean to incur offense...perhaps simply parent?) founded United Therapeutics for the sole purpose of finding a med for the child as no meds existed at the time of her diagnosis. United Therapeutics, with it's single-product line (Remodulin), has gone on to become one of the healthiest of bio-tech companies, generating tens of millions of dollars in sales (look at their web site and listen to their founder speak on-line). They help fund the stem cell studies in Canada at St Michael's in Toronto and the Jewish Hospital in Montreal, neither of which is yet available to the general public and, despite a blurb on one of their video press releases a few years ago which stated that the treatment could be ready in "as few as five years", does not look like it will be available to the general public at any time soon.

Curiously, although she has had PH for over a decade, by the company's own admission, Genesis Rothblatt's condition has never degenerated to the point that she has needed to make use of Remodulin, the product produced by the company founded in order to find medicine for her. Today she is a young lady at the outset of her chosen career.

My own personal comment to your reply is this:

Unless there is a very large and very loud groundswell of patients, with very definitively documented series of case studies, with peer reviews from accredited medical journals/institutions (just because they would likely be medical journals from non-first-world countries does not mean they would not be perfectly legitimate), and unless this thrust is coherently focused, organized, led and executed--- not to lobby Congress or the Senate, but to lobby the man on the street via a regular barrage of information in the press and on the street corner, all hope for this country to cure and heal patients like ours is lost. When the man on the street gets angry enough and loud enough to make the politicos nervous, that is when we will see some action in our favor (remember the protests to the Vietnam War?)

Right now, we the patients are being acted upon; we're sitting down, and we're swallowing what big pharma, etc are shoveling down our throats. We protest in little bubbles, and in those little bubbles, we are impotent. Big pharma et al put out our little fires with their squirt guns and continue to manipulate the lawmakers to their benefit, not ours.

In order to effect change, we, the patients, need to take advantage of our numbers to effect our own change upon the system... so that it is to OUR advantage. We need a leader with legitimate and unassailable credentials; we need to organize a plan of action and a timetable upon which to execute it; and in the tried and true manner, we must unite, and be heard.

My daughter needs a second stem cell treatment and I can't afford it (couldn't afford the first one either, but I was able to find the money for that one...don't know if I'll be lucky twice). My job now is to figure out how I'm going to help her stay alive, thriving, and enjoying her life... and you know what? It's not going to happen in America. Once, when we were great, it would have.

Regards,

Animalca
 

Jeannine

Pioneer Founding member
Animalca

What a powerful post. If I had my health I would be fighting much harder than I am physically able to do at this tmie. I would be in DC in the face of the FDA!

The biggest problem we have is apathy. A few weeks ago we started a petition to speed up the release of a drug called DAXAS which is supposed to improve the lung function of COPD patients. We have hundreds of people who visit here every day with lung problems. We are sending the petition to the FDA on March 15th and have received only 50 people willing to sign the petition. I hate to say it but this country would have never achieved its greatness with the current crop of Americans. It seems there is a very large segment of America that is nothing more than a bunch of lazy, self-centered sheep. Very disheartening to say the least. America is in decline and it's one of the reasons why.
 

barbara

Pioneer Founding member
I get tons of e-mails on a daily basis thanking me for this forum. While I appreciate that a lot and I know Jeannine does as well, it is going to take a major tsunami of people advocating a change in the way sick people are treated to make any changes in the current status quo. We are being denied the basic right to any medical care we choose if we have a terminal or chronic disease that no other medications or treatments can help and this is WRONG.

I am not sure if people are afraid or what, but the apathy is indeed overwhelming when it comes to actually taking part in the fight. Do we need a Hollywood star to lead the charge? Is sickness such a way of life for many that they have given up? Do you feel that no amount of effort on anyone's part can help? Do you think you have nothing valuable to contribute? I surely hope not! This forum preaches hope and it's time to get fired up and start posting here and anywhere else you can spread the word that you want to be able to make your own medical decisions with your own doctor. Too many are dying.
 

barbara

Pioneer Founding member
Dr. Centeno replies to Animalca's posts

Dr. Centeno has read both of Animalca's posts and asked that I post his reply:


I've read both posts. I'm sorry that Stanford acted so strangely. While I think Dr. Grekos is doing some credible work to help patients, my serious concern is that he has shunned participation in ICMS. ICMS was founded so that an independent third party, non-profit can collect the outcome and complications data and act as a group to promulgate strict lab and professional guidelines. In essence, so the academic set could get it arms around the concept of autologous stem cell therapy while patients can have access in a safe and controlled manner. If you really want to see change, the first step is not to get to the man on the street or government (let ICMS do that), but convince the Grekos' of the world that it's in their patient's best interests to have these doctors and their clinics join ICMS and follow strict protocols so the Stanford's of the world have nothing to say but, "Gee, I don't know what they did or how they did it, but your daughter is better and I want to learn more..." Until the patients demand ICMS participation and guidelines compliance, blow-ups like this will continue to happen.
 
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