Adult stem cells - nerve cell ?
- Thread starter nitetrain
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I noted the post above on your cyber-chat site. This person labors under the same misperception I see so often -- one actually promulgated on the websites of some major stem cell providers. Namely, that stem & precursor cells extracted from bone marrow, fat, placenta, cord blood and such will spontaneously differentiate into neurons and such after infusion into the CNS. Not so. In the case of neurons (for example), the most recent scientific evidence indicates that only certain kinds of adult stem cells can be differentiated into neuronal-like cells -- and this in the lab (in vitro) -- and not spontaneously in the body. I say "neuronal like", BTW -- because none to my knowledge become genuinely fully functional neurons (Albeit induced pluripotent cells from mouse fibroblasts were recently transformed into fully functional neurons -- in a petri dish). This said, Biogenesis Institute which I serve as a consulting biomedical theorist, does possess and utilize technology that primes various adult stem cells to take biochemical cues from target tissues and differentiate into the desired cell (This actually is a better approach than differentiating, say, an iPS cell in the lab into a neuron -- because once you differentiate a cell in a petri dish you cannot just infuse it and hope it winds up in the right area -- the CNS -- you have to directly infuse or implant it). So how is it that use of various adults stem cells have had such salutary effects on various neurologic and other medical conditions? As I have postulated and maintained for more than seven (7) years now, this is likely due to the fact some of these cells express growth factors, cytokines and such that beneficially impact damaged nerve, heart, etc. cells and tissues.
I noted the post above on your cyber-chat site. This person labors under the same misperception I see so often -- one actually promulgated on the websites of some major stem cell providers. Namely, that stem & precursor cells extracted from bone marrow, fat, placenta, cord blood and such will spontaneously differentiate into neurons and such after infusion into the CNS. Not so. In the case of neurons (for example), the most recent scientific evidence indicates that only certain kinds of adult stem cells can be differentiated into neuronal-like cells -- and this in the lab (in vitro) -- and not spontaneously in the body. I say "neuronal like", BTW -- because none to my knowledge become genuinely fully functional neurons (Albeit induced pluripotent cells from mouse fibroblasts were recently transformed into fully functional neurons -- in a petri dish). This said, Biogenesis Institute which I serve as a consulting biomedical theorist, does possess and utilize technology that primes various adult stem cells to take biochemical cues from target tissues and differentiate into the desired cell (This actually is a better approach than differentiating, say, an iPS cell in the lab into a neuron -- because once you differentiate a cell in a petri dish you cannot just infuse it and hope it winds up in the right area -- the CNS -- you have to directly infuse or implant it). So how is it that use of various adults stem cells have had such salutary effects on various neurologic and other medical conditions? As I have postulated and maintained for more than seven (7) years now, this is likely due to the fact some of these cells express growth factors, cytokines and such that beneficially impact damaged nerve, heart, etc. cells and tissues.
Last edited:
michaelsdad00
Banned
Pre and Post SCT MRI's
Nitetrain-
Sorry about jumping into the middle of the discussion. But it seems that you have done an MRI beforehand and plan on doing an MRI afterwards, post 6 months. It would be very interesting to know if differences that can be tied directly to the stem cell transplant can be seen on the MRI. Are you doing any other therapies at the moment such as HBOT or nutritional supplements?
If no appreciable differences can be seen in the MRI but functional improvements are noted, might it that mean that the health and functionality of the existing neuronal/glial cells interactions has improved but no new neuronal cells have occurred? Do you know if MRI's also measure glia cells?
Thanks,
David Snow
Nitetrain-
Sorry about jumping into the middle of the discussion. But it seems that you have done an MRI beforehand and plan on doing an MRI afterwards, post 6 months. It would be very interesting to know if differences that can be tied directly to the stem cell transplant can be seen on the MRI. Are you doing any other therapies at the moment such as HBOT or nutritional supplements?
If no appreciable differences can be seen in the MRI but functional improvements are noted, might it that mean that the health and functionality of the existing neuronal/glial cells interactions has improved but no new neuronal cells have occurred? Do you know if MRI's also measure glia cells?
Thanks,
David Snow
No apology neccessary, this is how we are going to learn about these new treatments being offered....
MRIs -- We will have MRI post injury, MRI post 160 HBOT and Sept 2010 we will have MRI post stem cell treatment...
Not sure if glial cells are measured for either of these MRI..But I will find out and edit here...
My son has a weak left eye, and I am almost positive this is where the seizures are originating..
So other then school therapy, we are solely focusing on strengthen the left eye connections...
And no supplements offered, just proper nutrition....
Plus we are about to have a newborn in 6 weeks, so I am positive that will be plenty of stimulation during summer break
.....If no appreciable differences can be seen in the MRI but functional improvements are noted, might it that mean that the health and functionality of the existing neuronal/glial cells interactions has improved? I believe these improvements happen during first 6 weeks...Maybe improving the easy fixes first?....And the rest of stem cells are being prepared for transformation?...Again MRI and 4-6 month period should be the deciding factor...
I have discontinued any HBO treatments post stem cell treatment..For the reason of not knowing HBO full effects post stem cell treatment....
And for the reason of wanting to know what effects on the brain for each individual therapy and/or combination of therapys (stem cell and HBO)...
For comparison to assure I am offering the best combination of therapy for my son..
The improvements in the coming months should be tied directly to new nerve cell growth..(MRI should confirm)
Due to his inability to improve and surpass any physical developmental milestones during intensive conventional therapy from 6 months - 2.4 years of age..
(HBO started at 2.5 years)...
My son will turn 4 years of age in August of 2010...
There has been some improvements physically in the past, post HBOT...
There is no doubt, that I can tie those improvements as a direct result of HBOT..
My opinion HBO increases blood flow to damaged tissue during treatments..
Connections can be made during this time and soon after treatments..
But a few months after treatments, it seems those improvements regress..
Much like viagra, increases blood flow for a certain amount of time only to return to normal blood flow, same concept for HBO...
Also interesting to note..My son had the highest number of stem cell injected compared to the group of 16...Possibly HBO and/or severity of injury....
The initial improvements after stem cell seemed to mimic the temporary improvements seen during and after HBO...
Possibility growth factors/cytokines? helped finalize and make HBO improvements more permanently...
Initial improvements have seemed to stabalize, so something happened within first 6 weeks post stem cell treatment...
Other parents are begining to see additional improvements during 4-6 months period...
My son will be nearing this time period at the end of July....
Note: His seizure activity have not helped much in the process of improvements or measurement of improvements..
SO hopefully the remaining 15 percent of seizure activity will soon disappear...
Hopefully, this study will continue to Phase II and we might add HBO into the equation after Phase II of stem cell treatment..
All depending on final results of Phase I.....
Of course this is all my opinion, but this is where my thought process is at the moment...
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michaelsdad00
Banned
thoughts.
I have seen what you are saying regarding HBOT progress that fades and stem cell progress that fades. I have taken my son for SPECT scans and used that for comparison over a 7 year period. During that timeframe he had cranial sacral therapy, myofascial release, hundreds of HBOT sessions, used his portable hyperbaric chamber at home, 5 umbilical cord blood derived stem cell treatments, nutritional supplementation, conductive education, etc. The SPECT scan showed interesting improvements last May. Since the MRI requires isolation, we weren't willing to have him intubated, do to his reflux, so we backed out of having an MRI at the last moment several years ago. My son also started HBOT at 2.5 years old. He is 10 now. One main difference is that stem cell therapy has changed markedly in the past 7 years. We didn't ever stop to try and isolate any particular therapy. Thanks for posting. Very interesting.
Dave Snow
I have seen what you are saying regarding HBOT progress that fades and stem cell progress that fades. I have taken my son for SPECT scans and used that for comparison over a 7 year period. During that timeframe he had cranial sacral therapy, myofascial release, hundreds of HBOT sessions, used his portable hyperbaric chamber at home, 5 umbilical cord blood derived stem cell treatments, nutritional supplementation, conductive education, etc. The SPECT scan showed interesting improvements last May. Since the MRI requires isolation, we weren't willing to have him intubated, do to his reflux, so we backed out of having an MRI at the last moment several years ago. My son also started HBOT at 2.5 years old. He is 10 now. One main difference is that stem cell therapy has changed markedly in the past 7 years. We didn't ever stop to try and isolate any particular therapy. Thanks for posting. Very interesting.
Dave Snow