I ended up having to post on a COPD forum today to answer some questions. I really am not looking for another job, but I felt like they needed some answers from someone who has actually had stem cell therapy. One of the people on that site posted a very negative article about a man who had ALS and was taken by a horrible company that supposedly offered a cure. I have asked the poster of that article to allow me to post it here. I think it is a good example of what to look for. There will always be someone out there that tries to prey on people that are sick. This forum wants to expose them as much as we want to support the legitimate ones. If you have any information on shady companies that can be documented, please post it for all to see. That is what they deserve. We do not endorse any company publicly on the forum, but you will be answered privately if you need information on the companies we have researched and found, in our opinion, to be reputable. We will however, post the names publicly of any company that engages in fraudulent and deceptive practices. Another thing I want to make clear. Stem cell therapy has not proven to be a cure. It has improved my life tremendously in the 9 short weeks since treatment. I look forward to more, however, I do not know if I will ever be "cured" and I do not want to mislead anyone into thinking that the therapy offers a cure at this point. There have been too few people in the world to receive it, especially for COPD to have lengthy statistics of how much our lungs will improve and our overall quality of life.
Fraudulent companies
- Thread starter barbara
- Start date
Experience with Theravitae
I am not going to say that Theravitae is out-and-out fraudulent, but they certainly made claims and promises that they didn't keep in my case, and were very difficult to work with:
I went to Bangkok for cardiac autologous stem cell treatment early in 2007. Prior to wire-transferring $35,000 to these people (was to include everything except airfare), I had a month-long contact with them by phone and email. I was very concerned because I had acute ischemia, and they were going to do a catheter treatment (same as angiogram) and my 2 cardiologists were interested more in either the direct robot injection (into the heart) method, or syringe (inside the catheter) into the heart while doing the catheter treatment. This company has you talk to highly intelligent English-speaking people on their toll-free phone number up until the time that you wire the money. At that point, their level of how much they care dwindles quickly. Anyhow, I first told them that one of my cardiologists would like to speak to the Thailand cardiologist (which they said could be done) but then they delayed this happening until it finally wasn't done. I had also asked to speak or exchange email with the cardiologist there, which never happened. They finally relayed "his reply" which wasn't even a forwarded email, so I never knew if it came from him before I left USA. What they did was to schedule a blood draw date that required my sending the money and leaving USA on a certain date, and like a fool, I sent the money. They were supposed to meet me at the Bangkok airport (part of the agreement) but they didn't show up. Instead, they sent a hotel representative who didn't know who he was looking for, and I stood very scared in the Bangkok airport for about 1/2 hour until we found each other. We wanted hotel upgrades, and got ripped off for that also, since the $35,000 was to include the basic room. They ended up lying to me about the upgrade costs, which I knew were not correct. They promised transportation for me or my travel companion to or from the hospital. They didn't tell me that this was limited, and had to end at 5pm, even though I was spending the night in the hospital for some nights there. They promised fully English-speaking guides, and most of their employees could speak only spotty English, and didn't understand a lot of what I was telling them or asking them. The same was true for nurses - they promised English-speaking nurses, and most of them only knew a few words of English. They promised sightseeing, but didn't tell me that this was limited to one day a week, and only to wherever they wanted to take me. They lied about how many days in the hospital would be required, and tried to keep me many extra nights there (for testing purposes) that were not needed, and I had to fight with doctors to get back to the hotel on other nights. I ended up having to stay an additional week in Bangkok, because my blood draw was deemed to be "contaminated" when it got to their Israel lab, which in fact wasn't true at all. They had to do an additional draw, which kept me there the additional week. Their literature encouraged me to stay an extra 3 days in Bangkok to promote better recovery, but they didn't want to pay the 3 extra nights in the hotel!!!! I ended up making several complaining phone calls (instead of relaxing) and they ended up paying the extra nights. There were many, many other promises made that were not kept by Theravitae, but they are of lesser importance.
The two doctors I saw there were quite good and caring and spoke fine English, but I was never able to talk to them about the treatment that my cardiologists wanted, because they had already determined what the treatment would be. I was not admitted to the hospital that could do the robot injection into the heart, and they were not about to modify their procedure for a syringe injection from the catheter.
I was totally fed up with Theravitae by the time I left Bangkok. I told them that I didn't want any email or phone followup by anyone from their company at any time in the future. When I got home, I got two phone calls from their USA followup coordinator person, even though I told her the first time not to call again.
What REALLY MADE ME ANGRY, was that I then saw my two cardiologists (they are in 2 cities) and each of them asked me WHY THE STEM CELLS WERE INJECTED BY CATHETER to portions of my heart that already had adequate flow!!!? They asked me why the doctors there had not done something to inject stem cells to the areas that did NOT have adequate blood flow? I was, and still am highly frustrated that my question, and my doctor's questions were never answered, beginning two weeks from BEFORE I left USA. Why I wire transferred the money and went there, I will never know.
Anyhow, it has been 6+ months since my stem-cell injection by Theravitae in Bangkok, and I have had no improvements whatsoever.
I would have strongly recommended AGAINST anyone doing business with this company if their treatment had been helpful to me. Since it wasn't, I really recommend against anyone doing business with them.
Another thing that concerns me about Theravitae are the "patient volunteers" that they hook prospective patients up with. I never spoke to any of them, but these are all people who post their pictures and experiences on Theravitae's website after their successful treatments. Then they "volunteer" to tell prospective patients how happy they are with Theravitae. Maybe this is legitimate, maybe not, but it sure raises a big red flag (or should have, in my case.)
Also, as I hinted at earlier, they do a really full, professional sales job with highly intelligent sales staff until the deal is done. Then, you get several emails asking if you have wired the money, and asking you to FAX proof that you have wired the money. This is a USA/Israel run company (I think) doing business mainly in Thailand and you send the money to their Hong Kong bank.
Boy...I am stupid!!
They are on the web at:
http://www.theravitae.com
also:
http://www.theravitaeinc.com/
and also:
http://www.vescell.com
Your mileage may vary, but I do advise:
BUYER BEWARE!!
DISCLAIMER:
This is simply my opinion based on my own personal experience. What I say happened to me did happen to me, but there are likely people that have been treated by them and are very happy with their treatment. I am not stating that everyone will have my experience. Some people are easier to please than others, etc. etc.
Harv
I am not going to say that Theravitae is out-and-out fraudulent, but they certainly made claims and promises that they didn't keep in my case, and were very difficult to work with:
I went to Bangkok for cardiac autologous stem cell treatment early in 2007. Prior to wire-transferring $35,000 to these people (was to include everything except airfare), I had a month-long contact with them by phone and email. I was very concerned because I had acute ischemia, and they were going to do a catheter treatment (same as angiogram) and my 2 cardiologists were interested more in either the direct robot injection (into the heart) method, or syringe (inside the catheter) into the heart while doing the catheter treatment. This company has you talk to highly intelligent English-speaking people on their toll-free phone number up until the time that you wire the money. At that point, their level of how much they care dwindles quickly. Anyhow, I first told them that one of my cardiologists would like to speak to the Thailand cardiologist (which they said could be done) but then they delayed this happening until it finally wasn't done. I had also asked to speak or exchange email with the cardiologist there, which never happened. They finally relayed "his reply" which wasn't even a forwarded email, so I never knew if it came from him before I left USA. What they did was to schedule a blood draw date that required my sending the money and leaving USA on a certain date, and like a fool, I sent the money. They were supposed to meet me at the Bangkok airport (part of the agreement) but they didn't show up. Instead, they sent a hotel representative who didn't know who he was looking for, and I stood very scared in the Bangkok airport for about 1/2 hour until we found each other. We wanted hotel upgrades, and got ripped off for that also, since the $35,000 was to include the basic room. They ended up lying to me about the upgrade costs, which I knew were not correct. They promised transportation for me or my travel companion to or from the hospital. They didn't tell me that this was limited, and had to end at 5pm, even though I was spending the night in the hospital for some nights there. They promised fully English-speaking guides, and most of their employees could speak only spotty English, and didn't understand a lot of what I was telling them or asking them. The same was true for nurses - they promised English-speaking nurses, and most of them only knew a few words of English. They promised sightseeing, but didn't tell me that this was limited to one day a week, and only to wherever they wanted to take me. They lied about how many days in the hospital would be required, and tried to keep me many extra nights there (for testing purposes) that were not needed, and I had to fight with doctors to get back to the hotel on other nights. I ended up having to stay an additional week in Bangkok, because my blood draw was deemed to be "contaminated" when it got to their Israel lab, which in fact wasn't true at all. They had to do an additional draw, which kept me there the additional week. Their literature encouraged me to stay an extra 3 days in Bangkok to promote better recovery, but they didn't want to pay the 3 extra nights in the hotel!!!! I ended up making several complaining phone calls (instead of relaxing) and they ended up paying the extra nights. There were many, many other promises made that were not kept by Theravitae, but they are of lesser importance.
The two doctors I saw there were quite good and caring and spoke fine English, but I was never able to talk to them about the treatment that my cardiologists wanted, because they had already determined what the treatment would be. I was not admitted to the hospital that could do the robot injection into the heart, and they were not about to modify their procedure for a syringe injection from the catheter.
I was totally fed up with Theravitae by the time I left Bangkok. I told them that I didn't want any email or phone followup by anyone from their company at any time in the future. When I got home, I got two phone calls from their USA followup coordinator person, even though I told her the first time not to call again.
What REALLY MADE ME ANGRY, was that I then saw my two cardiologists (they are in 2 cities) and each of them asked me WHY THE STEM CELLS WERE INJECTED BY CATHETER to portions of my heart that already had adequate flow!!!? They asked me why the doctors there had not done something to inject stem cells to the areas that did NOT have adequate blood flow? I was, and still am highly frustrated that my question, and my doctor's questions were never answered, beginning two weeks from BEFORE I left USA. Why I wire transferred the money and went there, I will never know.
Anyhow, it has been 6+ months since my stem-cell injection by Theravitae in Bangkok, and I have had no improvements whatsoever.
I would have strongly recommended AGAINST anyone doing business with this company if their treatment had been helpful to me. Since it wasn't, I really recommend against anyone doing business with them.
Another thing that concerns me about Theravitae are the "patient volunteers" that they hook prospective patients up with. I never spoke to any of them, but these are all people who post their pictures and experiences on Theravitae's website after their successful treatments. Then they "volunteer" to tell prospective patients how happy they are with Theravitae. Maybe this is legitimate, maybe not, but it sure raises a big red flag (or should have, in my case.)
Also, as I hinted at earlier, they do a really full, professional sales job with highly intelligent sales staff until the deal is done. Then, you get several emails asking if you have wired the money, and asking you to FAX proof that you have wired the money. This is a USA/Israel run company (I think) doing business mainly in Thailand and you send the money to their Hong Kong bank.
Boy...I am stupid!!
They are on the web at:
http://www.theravitae.com
also:
http://www.theravitaeinc.com/
and also:
http://www.vescell.com
Your mileage may vary, but I do advise:
BUYER BEWARE!!
DISCLAIMER:
This is simply my opinion based on my own personal experience. What I say happened to me did happen to me, but there are likely people that have been treated by them and are very happy with their treatment. I am not stating that everyone will have my experience. Some people are easier to please than others, etc. etc.
Harv
Last edited:
Harvey's message
I think it is a good thing that your post is the first reply to this thread that I started on 6/10. That speaks well for the companies currently offering stem cell therapy. I also think that your advice is excellent. Buyer Beware! especially when you are talking the kind of money that you spent. If a company is reluctant to let its doctors speak to yours that would send a little warning to my brain. You are like many of us however, your quest for good health sometimes lets you ignore signs like that and it is human nature to be trusting. Jeannine and I being the first two from the Pioneers to go to the company we went to had to trust that we were going to get what we paid for. We were both satisfied that the doctor knew what he was doing, but still it was scary. As more people choose to get stem cell therapy, it is the intention of this forum to be able to at least make people aware of what they could encounter. Maybe, we will get more replies from others that have had a similar experience with the company you went to in Thailand or maybe we will hear some great success stories. Our forum is growing and I want to thank people like Harvey who are helping make it a place to obtain information that is hard to get. The book Jeannine and I wrote has a great deal of information about our personal experience and how we coped with everything. It is written by patients as are all the posts on this forum right now. You can listen to glowing company reports all day long, but when it really comes down to it, I want to hear from another patient! In my case, I was able to do this. It may not be for the same disease you are suffering from, but at least a testimony from a patient as to how the company takes care of you pre and post treatment. I hope Harvey that you are going to be able to find treatment somewhere. You have certainly endured enough for no results. Were you ever told that it might not help you at all or were you promised some kind of success?
I think it is a good thing that your post is the first reply to this thread that I started on 6/10. That speaks well for the companies currently offering stem cell therapy. I also think that your advice is excellent. Buyer Beware! especially when you are talking the kind of money that you spent. If a company is reluctant to let its doctors speak to yours that would send a little warning to my brain. You are like many of us however, your quest for good health sometimes lets you ignore signs like that and it is human nature to be trusting. Jeannine and I being the first two from the Pioneers to go to the company we went to had to trust that we were going to get what we paid for. We were both satisfied that the doctor knew what he was doing, but still it was scary. As more people choose to get stem cell therapy, it is the intention of this forum to be able to at least make people aware of what they could encounter. Maybe, we will get more replies from others that have had a similar experience with the company you went to in Thailand or maybe we will hear some great success stories. Our forum is growing and I want to thank people like Harvey who are helping make it a place to obtain information that is hard to get. The book Jeannine and I wrote has a great deal of information about our personal experience and how we coped with everything. It is written by patients as are all the posts on this forum right now. You can listen to glowing company reports all day long, but when it really comes down to it, I want to hear from another patient! In my case, I was able to do this. It may not be for the same disease you are suffering from, but at least a testimony from a patient as to how the company takes care of you pre and post treatment. I hope Harvey that you are going to be able to find treatment somewhere. You have certainly endured enough for no results. Were you ever told that it might not help you at all or were you promised some kind of success?
I was not promised success, but was pointed to their "statistics" on the web saying that 80 percent or more of their patients receiving these treatments see improvement within 6 months or less. Of the "statistics" that Theravitae publishes on the web the vast majority of the "success stories" were within 3 months or less, with just a few between 3 and 6 months. Again, I am now 6 months since treatment.
Harv
Harv
...Were you ever told that it might not help you at all or were you promised some kind of success?
That is a very sad and depressing story that you tell. I am totally new to Stem Cell Pioneers, having been told about it by someone by the name of Larry Raynak, who resides in California. I was referred to him by a Rick Smith, who sells Stem Cell capsules (which I tried, but which didn't help my condition.) My feet were burned in March of 2006 by live steam, my R foot more badly than the L. As a result I had damage to blood vessels, lymphatic vessels and nerve tissue. As the result of that I have poor circulation in my R foot and edemea (fluid accumulation inside my foot, which results in a "swelling" effect" by the end of each day.) I still take Percoset for the pain and discomfort. I am of the hope that some day stem cell injections could help me by regenerating or encouraging regrowth of blood vessels and lymphatic tissue and vessels.
As for your sad tale, I visited the web sites of the people you used and I see that there are set forth the names of doctors in Israel and at least one in Houston associated with the people who took your money, and Houston is where I understand you are located. This means that since your financial loss is rather substantial (more than $40K, as I understand it) it might be worth your while to file a law suit there in Houston against TheraVitae and/or VesCell and against at least the doctor in Houston, Eugene Sim. I am a practicing attorney in Cleveland, Ohio but please be assured that I am not soliciting your business by sending you this information. I am only advising you that you may have a way to get back at least some of the money obtained from you under apparently false pretenses. If you are interested in pursuing it I happen to have a brother-in-law in Houston who is a lawyer who might be willing to talk to you about it, or you could simply look in the Yellow Pages and find someone who might handle the kind of case you have. But it appears that you do have a case, from what you state in your "thread." If you want to write to or phone me directly, my e-mail address is irvbell@sbcglobal.net and my office phone number is 440-449-4560 (EST zone.) Finally, I am very new to writing and responding to "thread" messages; I just don't do it very often. So my question is, do you know of anyone who has used this web site who was or is looking for help similar to the kind of help I am looking for? (Meaning regeneration of blood vessels destroyed as the result of burns or other trauma.) Thank you.
As for your sad tale, I visited the web sites of the people you used and I see that there are set forth the names of doctors in Israel and at least one in Houston associated with the people who took your money, and Houston is where I understand you are located. This means that since your financial loss is rather substantial (more than $40K, as I understand it) it might be worth your while to file a law suit there in Houston against TheraVitae and/or VesCell and against at least the doctor in Houston, Eugene Sim. I am a practicing attorney in Cleveland, Ohio but please be assured that I am not soliciting your business by sending you this information. I am only advising you that you may have a way to get back at least some of the money obtained from you under apparently false pretenses. If you are interested in pursuing it I happen to have a brother-in-law in Houston who is a lawyer who might be willing to talk to you about it, or you could simply look in the Yellow Pages and find someone who might handle the kind of case you have. But it appears that you do have a case, from what you state in your "thread." If you want to write to or phone me directly, my e-mail address is irvbell@sbcglobal.net and my office phone number is 440-449-4560 (EST zone.) Finally, I am very new to writing and responding to "thread" messages; I just don't do it very often. So my question is, do you know of anyone who has used this web site who was or is looking for help similar to the kind of help I am looking for? (Meaning regeneration of blood vessels destroyed as the result of burns or other trauma.) Thank you.
Treatable diseases
I do know that stem cells are used to help accelerate the healing after an accident or surgery. Has Larry given you any information about the company where he went? There are several other options also, that you may wish to pursue. Larry got stem cell therapy about a month after Jeannine and I did, so he should have plenty of energy to research a little on this. Larry also is a top class researcher and he finds things I would never be able to dig up. Now, that I have volunteered Larry, let me know if he has or hasn't already sent you something so that we can try to help. In the meantime, maybe someone else on the forum can help. Thanks for joining us.
I do know that stem cells are used to help accelerate the healing after an accident or surgery. Has Larry given you any information about the company where he went? There are several other options also, that you may wish to pursue. Larry got stem cell therapy about a month after Jeannine and I did, so he should have plenty of energy to research a little on this. Larry also is a top class researcher and he finds things I would never be able to dig up. Now, that I have volunteered Larry, let me know if he has or hasn't already sent you something so that we can try to help. In the meantime, maybe someone else on the forum can help. Thanks for joining us.
Hello, Barbara - Thanks for your response to my message. I just wrote you a long reply, made the mistake of going to a previous screen for a moment, and the entire damn message was deleted. So I'm going to make this short: I'd like very much to speak with you in person, so please phone me. I have a toll-free number, 1-866-461-4646 and I'm in Cleveland, EST zone. If I'm not available when you call please leave your full name and phone number, along with a good time to call you. Regards, Irv Bell.
Irv
Irv - It was nice talking to you. I have a question for you now. I don't know if you know anything about tax law, but we have been trying to find out if the cost of the treatment and the trip costs to get there, supplements, etc. are tax deductible. Would you be able to comment on this or know anyone that would have the answer. Thanks,
Irv - It was nice talking to you. I have a question for you now. I don't know if you know anything about tax law, but we have been trying to find out if the cost of the treatment and the trip costs to get there, supplements, etc. are tax deductible. Would you be able to comment on this or know anyone that would have the answer. Thanks,
Technocracy
Member
It is now time to let this fade into memory.
Cleaning the thread.
Cleaning the thread.