Adipose vs Bone Marrow stem cells

[mkosel0]

Hi Everyone,

I have been looking into stem cell treatments for cerebral palsy. My son had a cord blood infusion at Duke in Sept 2012.

I am wanting to do more stem cell treatments. I have seen studies from Dr. Cox (UTMB) saying that bone marrow stem cells are safe for treatment of TBI.

I have also seen studies that say that they have proven that bone marrow stem cells can differentiate into brain cells (this was out of a study in bethesda funded by NIH).

I havent seen anything on adipose stem cells though saying that they will differentiate into brain cells. Specifically my son is needing oligodendrytes (white matter cells).

Just wondering what other people's thoughts were on seeking adipose treatments, which seem to be easy to come by in the US.

 

[barbara]

I will submit your questions to the host this month of Ask the Doctor.

 

[LLL6521]

You have three options for stem cell treatments for your son.
1. Umbilical Cord Stem Cells (UCS)
2. Bone Marrow
3. Adipose

The less invasive one of the three is umbilical cord stem cells. Now, you are saying that you already performed one with Duke, so your child's own stem cells have been used up already. This means for option 1 you are now limited to allogenic UCS treatment or donated stem cells. My son had this one, because we never saved his cord blood. It was done three years ago, and we did have some good progression, and he was able to verbalize more, stand more, sleep better, and gain weight soon after the treatments.
I was interested with option 2, because it was autologous. However, my son was very young, and this type of treatment can be invasive. They have to put him under and then extract bone marrow from his hip. At the age of 4, he was to young and needed his bone marrow for growth. Now he is 7, and I may consider it at 8 and older. Keep in mind, that parents have had younger children treated, so my decision was just personal, and I am sure it is fine, but we are just extra precautious. If the procedure was done in the U.S., then yes I would probably gone with this one.
Option 3 is one that really has not totally convinced me yet. It may work, however there is not enough evidence for neurological treatments. Personally, I will stay away from that one until more evidence is published.

Now keep in mind, if you were to consult researchers, they would try to convince you to stay away from all overseas treatments. However, as I and many in this website along with other reputable doctors have defended autologous stem cell treatments, and we advocate the FDA staying away from our own stem cells. This is different subject matter that you may want to investigate on your own. One good start would be to look into this website www.patientsforstemcells.org. If you want more details of specific locations you may want to consider sending me a message through the personal message in this site, because we try to avoid promoting any overseas clinics on this website. I hope this information helps.

 

[mkosel0]

Thanks for the reply. Currently there are several places in the US (actually one here in town) that are doing adipose stem cell infusions from your own fat cells.

I have researched the bone marrow transplants. The TBI trial that Dr. Cox is doing is going into Phase 2, which means that he found it "safe and feasible" within Phase 1.

His clinical trial for bone marrow for cp hasnt gotten through the FDA, I cannot find it on clinicaltrials.gov and I did talk to him and they said it wasnt through their IRB or FDA.

I am trying to see if I can get this done within the confines of the US, I have seen a publication from the national institute of health concluded that bone marrow stem cells can become neural cells. They took 8 women ages 2 - 30 and injected them with male bone marrow cells. All of them post mordem were examined and showed that the stem cells had reached the brain and had become brain cells. They said the youngest (2 years old) even showed some replication.

In light of that I was heavily leaning toward bone marrow. But I am not sure about adipose and that seems to be more easily obtained.

Anyone done adipose stem cells?

 

[LLL6521]

Hmm interesting, Dr. Cox is moving into phase 2, but you are saying that he is not going through the FDA IRB? Is he moving forward with live patients without the FDA?

If he is moving along without the FDA is because he is okay to do so without manipulating the stem cells. The drawback is that less stem cells would be infused, then having them grown in cultures and having millions of stem cells infused. The manipulation of the stem cells is the FDA's threshold of having them catergorized as a "drug."

 

[mkosel0]

Sorry, I didnt mean to be unclear.

They are moving forward on Phase 2 of the TBI trial for treating TBI with Bone Marrow Stem Cells. They have not gotten through the FDA with the trial for cerebral palsy.

My son has CP.

 

[LLL6521]

The clinical trial needs to get passed phase 3, which is the most expensive phase, then they move onto phase 4. Breaking through phase 3 is the real challenge, because of the cost, so we are looking at several years. A clinical trial can take about 8 to 10 years, and at times, they are not completed because of insufficient funding. By the time this trial is completed, some overseas countries like Japan and Korea would have already proven those treatments to be safe and with less cumbersome regulations.

Please keep in mind, that autologous stem cell treatments are nothing similar to a massively produced drug. On the basis of evaluating their merits to make a profit for anyone, these trials are looked upon as costly procedures that would make little money for any private entity. Those that are currently researching are the ones benefitting from these trials, and the longer they can milk the funding; the longer the trial would exist. I can be wrong. In fact, I hope I am. This is why it should be a medical procedure supervised by state medical boards like fertility clinics, bone marrow tranplants, and thousands of other more venturesome medical procedures. My son has CP as well. It is pleasure meeting you.

 

[barbara]

LLL6521 - You stated, "Now keep in mind, if you were to consult researchers, they would try to convince you to stay away from all overseas treatments. However, as I and many in this website along with other reputable doctors have defended autologous stem cell treatments, and we advocate the FDA staying away from our own stem cells. This is different subject matter that you may want to investigate on your own. One good start would be to look into this website www.patientsforstemcells.org. If you want more details of specific locations you may want to consider sending me a message through the personal message in this site, because we try to avoid promoting any overseas clinics on this website."

I just wanted to clarify our policy on this forum. I believe offshore clinics are the only answer for some patients. There are good ones as well as bad as I'm sure everyone knows. Many of our Ask the Doctor hosts have offshore clinics. We don't allow website, e-mail or phone contact information however for any clinic engaged in commercial treatments to be posted. This has nothing to do with location. You can certainly feel free to discuss the doctors/clinics/companies however, just no contact info. The exception to that rule is the posting of press releases which must be posted in the press release section. Also, hosts of Ask the Doctor are invited to give contact information when they host.

 

[mkosel0]

Would you do an adipose stem cell treatment?

I am sure that a bone marrow stem cell infusion would be advantageous based on the research that I have done. But an adipose stem cell treatment (infusion) may be easier to come by in the US.

Just cannot find convincing supportive data on adipose stem cells for CP or brain.

 

[barbara]

I've had an adipose treatment which I call the treatment from hell. I thought I was going to die to be frank. I believe the infusion was also part of the problem.

It is imperative that a doctor be very experienced in the liposuction procedure. There are doctors who certainly fit that criteria and many use a system that is not nearly invasive as what I experienced. Having said that, however, I doubt I would subject a child to the procedure if I was not convinced by research, testimonials, several medical opinions, etc. that it would be beneficial for that child.