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Thread: Stem Cell Therapy

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4

    Angry Stem Cell Therapy

    Had the venous stem cell therapy in May 2015 in Scottsdale, Az at the Lung Institute. They said I would see an improvement in three to six months. It is seven months and I have had absolutely no improvement. As a matter of fact, during this time I have felt worse than ever. They didn't tell me when I signed up for this that I would have to order from a special pharmacy, glutathione, that I had to use every other day in my nebulizer. This procedure actually jammed my lungs up and I had to struggle to breath. I continued with it for as long as I could and then had to stop. The Lung Institute never told me up front that I would have to take four or five different supplements which were supposed to help the stem cells to work better. I ordered them all, very costly and of course, not covered by insurance. Never saw any difference in them. Still struggled to breathe and no energy. They also wanted me to take an Optional Growth Factor Injection, at the end of three months, where I would be injecting myself. The cost $175. All and all I was very disappointed in the venous stem cell treatment I received there. It was a waste of money and has definitely caused a financial hardship on me for something that did not work. The doctor and everyone there said, some folks will see big improvements, others will see small improvements. I had no improvements. In fact, it made me feel worse. I am now back to my usual regiment of all my prescribed medications and using my nebulizer as ordered by my Pulmonary doctor. Needless to say, I am totally disappointed. I would not recommend the venous stem cell treatment.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,909
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Thanks for your review. I wish more patients would post in this section, good or bad.
    First treatment in 2007. Pioneering ever since.

    Barbara

  3. #3

    Default

    Sorella - Maybe you were having an allergic reaction to the glutathione. Not everyone can tolerate it. Sounds like you had a difficult time with it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4

    Unhappy Glutathione

    I don't know what you would mean by an allergic reaction . . . it just plain didn't do anything for me. I felt worse after each session. Along with all the supplements prescribed and the glutathione, I certainly would have expected a little improvement. I still struggle to breath; I'm on oxygen 24/7 and I have no energy. My lung capacity is 16% -- the lungs of a 103 year old man is what I have been told. I am 75 with COPD/Emphysema - - going on 12 to 15 years now.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    10
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default "Venous Stem Cell Therapy" is a misnomer

    Progenitor cells derived from venous blood is called PRP, Platelet Rich Plasma. Platelets are components of blood that are important in clotting. Platelets in concentration also contain some growth factors and other signaling protiens called cytokines. To be very generous there also COULD be a blood stem cell or two in there, called hematopoietic stem cells, but certainly not in sufficient concentration to be of practical theraputic value. Assays taken by a machine that counts live cells, a flow cytometer, usually show the number of cells in PRP to be around 70,000 cells per mL.

    PRPs are used extensively in orthopedic fractures and sports injuries and believe it or not something called "vampire facelifts" and in these applications they are effective.

    Stem Cell Therapy utilizing bone marrow or fat contain many, many more growth factors and cytokines and most importantly mesemchymal stem cells that are capable of regenerating endothelial cells, like the ones found in lung tissue. Typically bone marrow produces in the order of 100 million cells and adipose tissue can produce many times that amount with typical "counts" in the 300 -600 million range.

    There are several scholarly articles showing a "dose response" i.e. more stem cells produce better results. PRP simply does not have the "muscle" to tackle a disease like COPD in most people. It is important to research because not all stem cell therapies are the same.
    stemcellenthusiaist

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4

    Unhappy Venous Stem Cell Therapy is a misnomer

    Reply to Kenwest. You certainly did your homework about the different therapies. It wasn't until after I came back from Scottsdale that I attended a seminar by Dr. Thomas A. Gionis from Irvine, CA regarding the Adipose procedure. I was told in Scottsdale I did not qualify for the Adipose because I was on blood thinners. Dr Gionis said that was not so, all I had to do was stop taking them for awhile before the procedure and the Adipose would have been a lot more effective. Dr. Gionis said they only do the Adipose (fat)-derived Stem Cells because in comparison to bone marrow cells, adipose stem cells are between 500 - 1,500x more abundant. What procedure did you have and did it help you any? Did you have to go back for booster shots?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,909
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    I had a peripheral blood treatment that really helped me a few years ago. I also injected HGF for several months post treatment. I had an adipose treatment the year following. I am not a fan of liposuction, so if given a choice, I would opt for a peripheral blood treatment or bone marrow. I have also had several peripheral blood treatments prior to the successful one which did nothing as far as having any lasting effect. I also had an adipose treatment several years ago that I call the treatment from hell. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. The adipose treatment I had more recently was done under an IRB study. I feel that it was beneficial, but no more so than the successful peripheral blood treatment I had. The adipose treatment did not include HGF, but I did inhale glutathione under the study guidelines.


    I continue to agree with Dr. Grossman as to why some patients with COPD get better results than others. Here is his response from when he hosted Ask the Doctor:

    Q: Why do some patients seem to respond so much better than others? I have heard of COPD patients who have had multiple treatments and feel no real change (either way which could be argued is good), but then I read about other patients who seem to have gotten a lot of improvements and have become active once again. Is it age or do some people have more stem cells than others or is it how the treatment is done and the stem cells are processed?
    A: COPD represents a broad spectrum of disease states and includes patients who have more of an emphysema-like condition while for others chronic bronchitis is more dominant. Patients with more of the emphysema component have already experienced loss of the alveolar walls, which is where oxygen exchange in the lungs occurs. Regenerative therapies, at least at this early stage in their development, do not seem able to re-grow damaged alveoli. As a result, patients with predominantly an emphysema component to their disease would be less likely to experience benefit. Other patients have more of a chronic bronchitis aspect with airway inflammation and mucus production being hallmarks of their condition. Regenerative therapies utilizing adipose tissue possess anti-inflammatory properties, which theoretically could be of value treating these types of conditions. We would therefore expect this group to respond better. COPD patients typically fall somewhere between these extremes and have components of each. Depending on where you are on the spectrum can help determine how much improvement regenerative therapy might have on your condition.
    First treatment in 2007. Pioneering ever since.

    Barbara

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4

    Unhappy Venous Stem Cell Therapy

    Reply to Barbara - Thank you for your response. Very enlightening and well stated. Didn't discover your site until after my Venous treatment in Scottsdale. Excellent information from Dr. Grossman regarding why individuals with Copd/Emphysema do not respond well, if at all, to the Venous treatment. Had I known about this before, I would not have gone to Scottsdale for this treatment. Sure wish the doctors there would have had the knowledge and known about this as Dr. Grossman explained it. Perhaps they did and chose not to turn away a new patient. Appreciate the information.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,909
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Not all doctors agree with Dr. Grossman's assessment, but I think it is the most logical explanation I've heard. There is no hard scientific evidence at this point that I'm aware of however. Dr. Grossman was not just stating that concerning venous treatments, his statement was for other types of stem cell treatment as well for lung patients.
    First treatment in 2007. Pioneering ever since.

    Barbara

  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks for your review.

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